S2 Ep #4 - Long Covid & Periods
Katya 00:02
Hey, hey. So my reaction to this point is really weird, right? Because when you said I got stuck in the bathroom, I had this idea of like, I found it funny because we had already gone from laughing, then you into this serious bit and it sounds like you entered some kind of like alternate universe. Because you said I went into the bathroom and just sort of got stuck there. I had like a Lion, the Witch in the wardrobe image
Hannah 00:29
Narnia, like on the other side of my bathtub or something.
Katya 00:33
I remember like really trying to be sensitive, because this is like a serious thing you're talking about. But I don't know. It's just such a weird thing. I do get it.
Jingle 00:47
I'm having a good day/minute/hour/week, what to do and how to be with the beans given to me, me and my bounded energy
Hannah 01:06
medical disclaimer, we are not doctors and we are not giving medical advice. If you were struggling with any of the issues discussed in the podcast, please seek professional help.
Katya 01:18
welcome back to another episode. In this episode, Hannah and I re-listen to a conversation we had about a year ago, in which we discussed long COVID and periods. You know how you can get into a mood with friends when you're just really inclined to laughter no matter how serious the topic? Well, we were in one of those moods that day. And it was so lovely to re-listen to this conversation and to react to it with Hannah. Apart from all the giggling I think this is a really important issue to discuss. Because while periods for me are so minor, I hardly notice them, COVID and its complications seem to have made what was a monthly discomfort into a major inconvenience and source of distress for Hannah. And I know she's not alone in this. Many people have reported heavier or more painful periods as a long COVID symptom. Anyway, that conversation is about 12 minutes into this episode.
Katya 02:11
I've kept in at the start our usual kind of chit chat catch up, because I asked Hannah about her chronic pain, fibromyalgia and her response is really insightful. I'd had a mild dose of the flu this past week. And as I kind of stumbled around with body aches and pain, I had this thought of hmm, is this what fibromyalgia is like for Hannah all the time? And so I asked her this and I wanted to include her response.
Katya 02:39
Before we start, I just like to shout out to the Apple podcast listeners Skylee 101 to thank them for that lovely review on Apple podcasts. Were a really small podcast. But this is an issue that impacts lots of people. And we so appreciate all the support in helping us reach a wider audience of fellow sufferers. And reviews like this really help us. If you're enjoying the podcast, please leave us a review or recommend us to a friend. Finally, we always love to hear from you. So if you'd like to tell us about your experiences, ask us your questions help. You can even send over your complaints. Our email address is bounded energy@gmail.com All right, here we go.
Katya 03:23
How are you?
Hannah 03:24
Yeah, I'm good.
Katya 03:25
I was thinking I felt like we haven't done this need is it always? It feels so weird, doesn't it for the first few minutes?
Hannah 03:33
Yeah, yeah,
Katya 03:34
How is your long COVID/ chronic pain?
Hannah 03:38
is not too bad. I'm on my period right now. So the irony of ironies. So on Thursday, my symptoms were just really bad. But it was because it was day one of my period. So I was really like stiff and achy. And then when my legs get really stiff and like my muscles, just the kind of involuntary tensed up. I'm just shuffling around. Like I can't take proper full strides. I'm shuffling because my legs are like so I was just like shuffling around campus. And yeah, it came out of the blue like, way earlier than we usually arrived. So like I was totally not prepared for it. I was just suddenly like, oh crap, I think I've started my period. And thankfully, because my periods are so unpredictable, I have a period emergency kit in the boot of my car. So my period emergency kit has a spare pair of trousers, spare pair of knickers, pads and tampons, and
Katya 04:54
a Hoover (laughs)
Hannah 04:57
and baby wipes.
Katya 04:59
Oh yeah.
Hannah 05:00
and painkillers. So I was like, oh my god, I have my emergency period kit. So I just like shuffled up the little hill to my car. And then this is all in my lunch break. So then spend my lunch break sorting myself out. And then I was back to lecturing again. So I was just it was a bit of shit day. But since then I've picked up and the period symptoms have settled and so my fibro settled with it really.
Katya 05:32
I thought about you, you know how I'd been asking you about your chronic pain. On the first day of my cold and a bit now, I had soreness all over my body, like, everything felt sore my arms and my stomach and my legs. And I just wondered is, is that what it's like?
Hannah 05:52
Yeah, so it's kind of like, your muscles feel tender and bruised. And then also, I get a deep ache in my bones. It's like in my joints. Then also I'll get patches of skin that are just like stiky. For no reason. But it feels as if I've like burnt myself, but there's nothing there. So yeah, it's kind of three layers. It's like skin, muscles bone. But it's not like I'm getting all of those sensations all at the same time. But it kind of like peaks and flows and where it is in my body sort of shifts around depending on what I'm doing. Like a wild. Yeah, but it's to be honest, it's such a background like hum. Now Yeah. Like sometimes when I really tune into it, I'm like, God, Jesus, I didn't used to feel like this. But I sort of, I can kind of like tune, tune it out to a certain extent that it's like days where like, yeah, like day one or by period or something. It's like it gets amplified. So yeah,
Katya 07:04
that's rubbish. II listened to Catherine Ryan's podcast. I don't know if you've ever heard 'telling everybody everything'?
Hannah 07:12
Yeah.
Katya 07:14
She's so funny. I think she has lupus. And she one of the things she says is like, she kind of always feels a bit shit all the time. It's like an underlying background...
Hannah 07:27
Yeah, yeah.
Katya 07:29
I just thought of you the other day, because I was like, Huh, I wonder if this is what Hannah's like all the time?
Hannah 07:36
Yeah.
Katya 07:37
And it's not it's worse!
Hannah 07:41
When Chris got got a really nasty bug, and he was just really shattered. He was like, Oh, Jesus, like, I just feel so like, just fed up and exhausted. And he was like, Oh, this is how you feel all the time. And I was like, yeah. Thanks, Chris!
Katya 07:59
But that is right, because it's like, I was thinking this a lot because I went to see a physio recently for my breathing. And she was asking me to describe my body. And I found it so difficult to explain. Like, what tired means for me? And like, I feel like I have no perspective.
Hannah 08:19
I know what you mean. Yeah, definitely. One thing that I get is like, when I wake up, and I, you have that period of time, where you're kind of testing out how you're going to be that day. Yeah, like the feeling of like, especially on the weekends, when my adrenaline is down. And I know, I don't have to like, psych myself up for work. So I wake up and I'm a bit more relaxed. That's kind of tends to be when like, exhaustion really creeps in. But it's just very normal to feel that coming over me. And then when it doesn't, I'm like, wow, this is a great day. Yeah, so yeah, just your perspective is just totally flipped around.
Katya 09:05
Yeah, I've been having over the last like two weeks. I feel like I'm relearning my long COVID.
Hannah 09:12
Why?
Katya 09:13
Because the improvement with the asthma diagnosis was so marked. That's where I was before to once I had my inhaler was like, I was like, I'm free. And then I had a crash, like a week and a half ago or something. And it's just realizing that it's like, the ceiling has moved, right. And it's so nice to be able to stretch. But it's like, I would really like to you know, go for a hike. Like, I kind of wonder if it's always going to be like that.
Hannah 09:43
Yeah, yeah. Just yeah, pushing that ceiling. Slowly higher and higher. Over time, that's my aim.
Katya 09:55
And managing like the disappointment I felt when you know for a bit like, Ah, this isn't gone. I thought it was like totally gone!
Hannah 10:08
The entire time it was just purely the asthma!
Katya 10:11
I had like a quiet thought, Hannah that I was cured. And then it's like, Oh...
Katya 10:18
And then finding a way to be grateful, right? Because like, moving around the house with ease and stuff. That's not a small thing.
Hannah 10:25
No.
Katya 10:26
So do you have anything else you want to say, Hannah?
Katya 10:33
No, I don't think so.
Katya 10:35
want to introduce what we're planning on doing? .
Hannah 10:38
Yeah. So a while back before, like, towards the end of season one of this podcast, we recorded a short episode where I was basically having a rant about how crappy my periods are, since long COVID/Fibro. And I probably went way too overboard and gave everyone way too much detail, but we didn't end up releasing it. So today, we were thinking we were gonna listen back to it again. I actually can't really remember what I said. So I'm a little bit scared.
Katya 11:10
You're in for a treat, Hannah. I really listened to it ages ago. And I remember thinking like, it was so refreshing. I don't know why I know. There's been a lot of progress around kind of like women's rights and advocacy and talking about periods.
Jingle 11:26
Yeah.
Katya 11:27
But it is still hard to talk about them and like, vaginas still feels like a curse word in some ways, you know?
Hannah 11:36
Yeah, I guess I know what you mean. I think maybe like, yeah, the only way is to just have like, conversations that kind of feel a bit graphic and a bit ik but then you just acclimatize yourself to it over time.
Katya 11:53
Yeah. Like half of the world lives with this at some point. Yeah, hopefully if they're lucky enough and healthy enough to have periods?
Hannah 12:04
Yeah, true.
Katya 12:07
Okay, should we just play it then? And we can. I was gonna say also, you don't need to worry too much, Hannah. Because if there's anything that stressed you, I have discovered that I can just add in a beep in the editing process. Because we I swore in the last episode, I think, and I was like, Ah, I don't have time to re record. just beep it out. So... I don't think people will be listening to 15 minutes of beep. It's not that bad. Cool.
Hannah 12:34
Well, before we play it, just just, you know, if you're the sensitive type, and you think you're gonna not cope with discussions about blood and stuff, like stop listening now, please, because I don't hold back.
Katya 12:48
Yeah, if any of these words trigger you , like menstruation, blood, periods, vagina, leaking. I feel like firstly, you should spend more time with women. But secondly, you don't have to listen. Alright, so we just play. Okay. All right, two, one.
Jingle 13:13
,
Katya 13:13
I know you wanted to talk about your period. I was about to say 'that time of the month'. Like some dad from 1960s!!
Hannah 13:25
I hate that. It's 'my time of the month'. Oh, it's so annoying.
Katya 13:32
That dirty little secret that every woman has.
Hannah 13:38
Yeah, so basically, I mean, I've always, you know, had to, you know, periods have never been an easy thing.
Katya 13:47
It's not like it's party time!
Hannah 13:49
Yeah, yeah. It's not like I'm like woohoo, time to bleed out of my vagina.
Katya 13:56
Time for me to buy my best whites.
Hannah 14:02
But since having COVID my periods have just really got a lot worse in every way imaginable. I've always struggled with pain, like cramping pain, but that has generally got worse. So when I am on my period, I obviously I take my pain meds. I have a hot water bottle now, which I just wear.
Katya 14:27
I've seen you in your dressing gown and hot water bottle
Hannah 14:30
have you!? I literally just have it kind of strapped to my stomach, but like most of my period, to help with the pain and then my PMS. So like my emotional regulation is really out of whack. So I know that you were kind of you had some experience of that a few days ago when we had a chat and I was just totally all over the place. And like yesterday, I had a real life like weird mental health break, it was like, the fourth day of my period. But I got into this really weird space in my head where I was really irritable, really, really down. But I, I got into this bizarre situation where I spent like, a couple of hours in the bathroom, and I did have a bath. But I got stuck mentally where I was like, I can't leave the bathroom. And then I finally finally managed to talk myself into leaving the bathroom, and got into my bedroom. I managed to put some clothes on. But then I got stuck again. And I couldn't leave the bedroom. I was just stuck there.
Katya 15:48
What's the stuck, like, because I've had that before, and but I don't get PMS. But I've had that before from other like when I'm really sick or other mental health crises? What's your stuck like? What do you mean?
Hannah 15:58
Yeah, it's like, I feel like there's, it's like I've created some sort of mental barrier to leaving the room. So I, I think it is just complete overwhelm. So the idea of going down stairs, it's like, there's too much to see too much to process. There's too much to do too much too many decisions to make about them what to do, once I get downstairs, it all just, it's really weird. It's like by by staying here in the bathroom, or by just lying here on the bed. It just feels manageable. But anything outside of this feels like I can't process or cope with it. So in order to get me out of it, I had to message Chris and say, can you just come up, please, and help me get downstairs. And so then eventually I just said to Chris, like, can you just give me the instruction, just tell me what to do. So then he said, Okay, we're gonna go downstairs, I'm going to make you tea and I've got some ginger biscuits, I'm just going to turn the football on, we're just going to have tea and biscuits and in front of the football. So then I was like, okay, so then I just followed his instructions. And we went downstairs, and then gradually, gradually, I was able to, like, get myself out of that weird mental space I was in, it was so bizarre, but I have just, that was kind of more of an extreme end of it.
Hannah 17:31
But like, during my period, I kind of, I'm much more prone to very weird, emotional places that I'm really not used to being in and the fatigue gets worse, and my bleeding has been much, much heavier. So, whereas obviously, I have always needed to take care and make sure I don't leak and things like that during my period. Recently, it's been a lot worse. So if I do go into work, it's like, okay, I need an emergency, an emergency stash of extra pants. I need an extra pair of trousers just in case. My clothes need to be black. I need to wear period pants. The pants themselves are absorbent, but then I wear a pad and then a tampon. And it's weird, like,
Katya 18:24
Jeez! That's mad. Sorry, Hannah. I don't know if I mean really childish, but like, that's like, that's a lot of like I had no, because I've been on the pill for like 10 years, I forgotten, like that people have varying levels of heavy bleeding. And that actually like what you're describing. You're not the first person who said it to me, but it's just like, yeah, that is so much to cope with. Basically, I'm a little taken aback.
Hannah 18:51
It's a lot to think about. I think because I don't know if it's that I'm losing more blood now. But what I've noticed is that it feels like I lose it all in a much more concentrated space of time. So it feels like the majority of my bleeding happens in like the space of 24 hours. And it's just crazy. So like, I'll go from sitting to standing. I stand up and when it is my heavy heavy day, I will just feel a gush of blood coming out. It will soak my trousers best. Yeah, so I'm, like, on the day that we had a chat.
Katya 19:40
You were sitting in a bath of blood.
Hannah 19:42
I was well I was sitting on a towel because I'd covered my chair with a towel just in case the blood then got onto the chair. Yeah.
Katya 19:52
Oh man. Right now so it's like, you know, like it's so weird. I thought I don't know why people don't talk about up periods because they affect half of the world for like one week out of four like a quarter of the time.
Hannah 20:05
Yeah.
Katya 20:06
Its so weird I'm on my period right now and i can feel it coming out!
Hannah 20:11
Oh, no, I hate that horrible like warm trickly feeling
Katya 20:15
I know,
Hannah 20:16
especially when you're like in the middle of like when you're in a work meeting. And then suddenly you just feel this like, glob, like, come out your
Hannah 20:29
KatyaI just said the word blob. What is wrong with me?
Katya 20:38
I Think blood is the technical term though, for for menstrual blood leaving the vagina. Do you want me to bleep it out?
Katya 20:48
I feel like that would be so strange.
Hannah 20:55
There's two more attention to what happened! Be Like what the f*** came out of her vagina?
Hannah 21:00
-laughing-
Hannah 21:03
Right. I hate that horrible, like, warm, trickly feeling I know, especially when you're like in the middle of an like when you're in a work meeting. And then suddenly, you just feel this like glob, like, come out.
Katya 21:19
You're like, I'm talking to you. And maybe you're like like a 50 year old man. And you think that, you know, my whole field of consciousness is just your face and the things you're saying. But there's also a bit of it, thats aware of something down there and can just feeling like things that were once in my body and couldn't be felt by me have suddenly become external. And I can now feel my period coming into my pads while we talk about like, my work progress?
Hannah 21:51
Honestly, I think I think a lot of women are embarrassed to talk about it, or there's this a little bit of a taboo of like, oh, that's a bit gross. Like, people shouldn't have to listen to you talking about that. But I do think that I take comfort in hearing people talk about their periods, because then I feel like, Oh, thank goodness, it's that reminder that it isn't just me, that's going through this. So that's why I wanted to share and kind of go into those kind of growth details. Because if anyone else is going through it, maybe there'll be they'll be pleased to hear that all alone. But also, I'm really interested to hear if you are listening to this podcast, long COVID has messed with your periods in any way. Please do share, I would love to know, it would make me feel a lot better to know, it's not just me.
Katya 22:39
There was a wonderful woman who used to work in my team, just about my team. And she Oh my God, because my team was mostly male, and she had terrible PMS. And her she made a point of saying, Sorry, guys have to log off now because I'm on my period. she would just say in front of the team. I'm on my period I'm experiencing like really severe PMS, I have to log off. And I spoke to her about it just to be like, is this just because you're, you know, I've no, I wondered if she was Polish. I wonder if it was part of the culture. And she was like, No, this is because I am a feminist. And like, we need to talk about this. And when I'm on my period, I am in agony for a lot of the time and I'm very emotional. And if I decide that I cannot work, that is a valid reason. And I'm not going to pretend that it's something else. Like I don't have a headache. I'm on my period.
Hannah 23:32
yeah, I just that sense of dread that I would get when it was like day one day two of my period, I have a full working day ahead of me. I mean, it's still the same, you know, it's a lot easier when I'm working from home. Because I can do a lot more to try to alleviate the pain and make myself comfortable. But when you're on your feet and you've got loads of work to do, but I would be in so much pain. I would be feeling faint with pain. And then you have that horrible cramping dull ache in your body. But then I would then get these and I do get these now is those sharp spasms that go through my like abdomen but then also my vagina as well. Like I'm one of my friends said oh, it literally feels like someone's thrust a knife up your vagina. And I'm like, Oh my God, it is like that. And you just get these horrible shooting pains
Katya 24:26
Did you get that before long covid?
Hannah 24:27
Yeah I would. I would have that before long. COVID Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I still get them and I get them a little bit a little bit worse now. But it really means that working is very difficult, but I don't think many women feel able to use that as a justification for not working. There is like it's one of those weird things of like, as a woman you don't want to I almost don't want to have to admit that my body holds me back
Katya 24:59
I also find I don't want to admit that I have a vagina. It's why I find having visible breasts embarrassing, right? Like I genuinely wear like smaller bras to like, at work. And I know it sounds crazy, but I can understand like, I don't want to draw attention to the fact that I'm a woman. Yeah, I definitely wouldn't want to be like, I'm a woman who's menstruating right now. And I need help. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Hannah 25:23
I think I'm worried that it will be interpreted as weakness. And I think it's that odd thing, that strange thing about feminism where it's like, I want to be seen as an equal to men. I don't want ... because you know, back in the day, they used to say that wasn't it like, a reason that a woman couldn't be a pilot was because they thought that PMS would stop her from being a good pilot or something like that.
Katya 25:48
It wasn't that long ago that me and my grandma got on a plane. And my grandma was like, Oh, it's a lady pilot. I hope she knows what she's doing. And I was like, I think she does grandma she's a bloody pilot!
Hannah 26:01
But yeah, I think there's that thing where it you can go too far the other way where you're like, oh, no, no, like, my period doesn't affect anything. Like I am perfectly able to work every day like a man does. But yeah, then there is that side of me. That's like, Yeah, but actually, because I am a woman, I do have times of the month where maybe I am not working to my best. Or maybe I do need to, I should be taking the time off because I really am in so much pain. I don't know,
Katya 26:28
I know what you mean, it's almost that thing of you know, when you feel really grateful, because you feel like you've been given something - like we were given the right to work the same hours as men and to be paid equally as we are in the UK. I almost feel like I couldn't imagine asking for more. Because it's like we have what's equal. So how do you then say, but actually, like, this is something that uniquely affects me with my biology. And I need more from you than Well, yeah, this man does.
Hannah 26:57
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. You're asking for more considerations around your body. Yeah. that don't apply to men.
Katya 27:07
And on top of on top of long COVID, right, because it's like, I need some help. So it's like, Well, yeah. I just want to say like, cuz I know, I mentioned this to you. But I guess I'll just say for our listeners, back to the long COVID Handbook, which I am not affiliated with. And like, I'm not, you know, I just did. It's the last book I read on COVID. And like, the most helpful, it talks about, it just basically says that it has been observed that people who suffer who suffer from autoimmune diseases report a worsening of symptoms around their menstrual cycle. And there's a lot of self reporting around women who have long COVID, who say their symptoms have gotten worse while they're menstruating. Really. It's just very interesting. Yeah. And I think it's to do with the fluctuations of hormones. And that can exacerbate the symptoms of autoimmune, but,
Hannah 28:07
yeah. That's interesting.
Katya 28:10
I'm on the pill. So I can't speakto any of that. Like, I can remember from before I went on the pill, periods being horrendous, or my god, like, I would throw up my legs would feel like they were twice as heavy as they were. Period. Pain wasn't just in like the vagina or the womb. It was in my lower back. Yeah. Oh, man, like, and then I would get terrible acne that really affected my ability to talk to people and really knocked my confidence. That was, for me, the main reason for going on the pill. And the reason why I've stayed on the pill, because I could actually deal with the pain but I couldn't I couldn't deal psychologically with the acne, the acne that, yeah, because it would come around my period. And it would be there for the week. That because I have brown skin, it would then tan so it would scar, and then and then I would have the scars and then my period would come back again, and I get more acne and more scarring. And, you know, it's been 10 years of the pill and I take a have a topical retinol and a topical retinol and it's like, it's so much better now. But I still have small scarring. God Yeah, periods.
Hannah 29:27
I have tried contraception stuff in the past, but I've never stuck with any of them because they just didn't really work. So I kind of gave up on it. And actually, my, I think it's helped in that I get my periods regularly. Now. Finally, my bodies found a rhythm. So I'm like, well, at least I'm getting a period every month.
Katya 29:49
it's like it's misery but at least it's dependable Hannah. (laughs)
Hannah 29:52
Yeah. Exactly. (laughing)
Katya 29:55
Like it's always hell but at least it's like frequent and you can plan for it!
Hannah 30:04
Oh, that's nice to listen back to that. Yeah.
Katya 30:08
It's not too bad, is it? But what do you think?
Hannah 30:11
Yeah. Yeah, we made some good points. points that I still agree with. I know. Yeah. Also, I forgot about the acne thing. What you were talking about its rubbish. Because your skin is so good now,
Katya 30:25
like, I know, but I realized the other day, I've been on my contraceptive pill for 10 years. Yeah, and I'm pretty sure like when I got prescribed at 18, or something they were not thinking that I would stay on it for like 11 years. But it's working And whenever I come off, I just get my spots again.
Katya 30:52
It's interesting listening to that, because I still find my boobs embarrassing. You know, we talked briefly about just like being a woman is embarrassing sometimes. .
Hannah 31:06
Yeah But then I, I have pretty small boobs. I don't like have that experience of like being like, Wow, I feel like these are kind of in the way and out. Sort of. I don't have that self consciousness, I think. But other women talk about that. Same as you. Yeah,
Katya 31:27
yeah, I have a colleague who has the same thing. Like she also has large boobs. And it's like, sometimes I'll just put them on my desk, like by my hands. And then I'll suddenly be like, Oh, snap, like these are visible. It's really, it's really weird. I went for a phase of being so jealous. You know, there was that summer trend for women to not wear a bra. These like women who just just didn't have boobs would wear like, clothes. I just remember this huge feeling of like, ah, like, What a luxury to not have to wear. You always want what you haven't got.
Hannah 32:05
Exactly, exactly. Sure there are plenty of women on the other side who wish they had big boobs.
Katya 32:13
Yeah. I felt like that said everything. I don't have anything to add Hannah.
Hannah 32:20
No, no. Other than it sounds like I contradicted myself because I was saying, oh, yeah, my period is quite hard to predict. And it happened to me out of the blue earlier than at the end of that podcast episode. I said it was more dependable. When I say dependable, I get my period, it can happen kind of anytime between like 27 to 40 days is like the length of my cycle. So it's like, yeah, it's like over over a week the variation.
Katya 32:53
Really?
Hannah 32:53
Yeah. So that's why it catches me even though I know it will come. I don't have to wait months for it to arrive. It's just It's always that. When will it arrive within the next like week and a half?
Katya 33:08
Yeah, whereas with the pill. I know the day it comes on Wednesday, every four weeks it comes on Wednesday, and it's finished by Saturday evening.
Hannah 33:17
Wow. That's so easy - you can plan your holidays around that!
Katya 33:26
Oh my god. Like . I can even get away with not using the pad.
Hannah 33:33
No!
Katya 33:33
no, I'm serious. I'd never imagine I'd find myself boasting about mymenstrual cycle!
Katya 33:44
I don't think it's a real menstrual cycle if you're on the pill, but I don't know. All right, should we wrap up? Yeah, yeah,
Hannah 33:54
I'm feeling a bit knackered actually, I think I need to go have a nap.
Katya 33:56
Yeah, we overstayed we said 30 minutes. All right. Yeah. Well done.
Hannah 34:03
Okie dokie.
Hannah 34:04
Thanks, Katya.
Katya 34:05
Take care. See you soon. Bye.
Katya 34:08
Thanks so much for listening. We hope you enjoyed this episode, and that you join us next time.
Hannah 34:13
If you enjoyed the podcast, please leave a review and recommend us to a friend. Send your questions and comments to bounded energy@gmail.com Or find us on social media at bounded energy.
