S2 Ep#1 Long Covid Catch Up

Katya  00:00

I re- listened to the episode from last week. Yeah, I sound like such a baby.

Hannah  00:07

 Really?

Katya  00:08

You're like, how did you feel about fibromyalgia? And I'm like, Oh, you're my nan COVID Friend Like, I sound like I'm afraid that you're gonna suddenly be like, catch. I can only be friends with people with my specific chronic illness.

Hannah  00:24

Katya, you're no use to me anymore? Yeah,

Katya  00:28

it's like I have fibromyalgia like you're not, you can't sit with us.

Jingle  00:35

I'm having a good day, minute/hour/week. What to do and how to be with the beans given to me? Me and my bounded energy

Hannah  00:51

medical disclaimer, we are not doctors, and we are not giving medical advice. If you are struggling with any of the issues discussed in the podcast, please seek professional help.

Katya  01:01

Hello, hello, Katya here and I am so so happy and excited to be back. While Hannah and I have enjoyed the break. We've really missed the podcast. I'm so pleased that we've decided to do a second season, we went back and forth on how we can make it work with our health and work responsibilities. And there are going to be a few changes to have will do things this time. You may have noticed from our last episode of season one, Hannah and I were totally burned out at the end of that. I can't speak for Hannah. But for my part, I can say that the biggest cause of my burnout was, again, social media. And so to put it simply, I'm just going to be posting a lot less. I hope people are okay with that. I expect you will be because if anyone's going to understand things like burnout and fatigue. It's the people who listen to this podcast. Having said that, though, one of the biggest joys of the podcast are all the wonderful messages we received from you guys on Instagram, Twitter, and my absolute favorite- email.

Katya  02:04

I know there's been a radio silence for me on the messaging front and season one. So to everybody who wrote to me and received a response two months later, please know how guilty I feel. But I'm back. And as you're hearing today's episode, Hannah and I are thrilled, thrilled, thrilled that the emails we received during our break. So please, if you listen to the broadcast and you want to say hello, send us an email at bounded energy@gmail.com. Another thing is Hannah and I were very ambitious first time round, we made long episodes and release them every two weeks. This time round, we're keeping ourselves at 30 minutes, max, and we're going to be far more loosey goosey with scheduling episodes will be released when we're ready. So do subscribe to the podcast so you don't miss out and look forward to the pleasant surprise new episodes appearing at total random in your feed. Okay, no more ado, here we go. Then, in this first episode, Hannah and I talk about how our symptoms and diagnoses have changed since the last season. The impact chronic illness still has on our lives. The reasons for continuing the podcast, and we have listener mail. Thanks for listening.

Katya  03:15

Should we start? Should we just go? Let me put a timer on Hannah, because

Hannah  03:23

we're going to be strict this time.

Katya  03:26

Exactly. I need to remember five minutes before the end to share the emails with you. Because we have two emails.

Hannah  03:34

Oh cute. Okay. I hope they are nice and not like hate messages.

Katya  03:41

haha! - yeah so i was listening to your podcast and I found you both really tedious.

Hannah  03:46

Oh no not Tedious.

Katya  03:50

How are you? How are you feeling? This feels? Feels weird. How are you? How are you?

Hannah  03:56

I'm okay. I'm, you know, I still am not better or returned to normal. I read in an article yesterday, in the week there was a spread about long COVID and it was saying apparently 75% of people who get it recover within 12 months. And I was like okay, that's that's not me. I mean, that's great to hear that so many people are recovering. But yes, I'm very much not one of those people. And my long COVID diagnosis has kind of formed into something else. a rheumatologist has diagnosed me with fibromyalgia that he thinks was triggered by COVID

Hannah  04:42

So basically everything I've been experiencing since contracting COVID for the first time has been kind of building and you know, I'm now according to his professional opinion, I am living with a long term condition called Fibromyalgia Which is where you experience chronic fatigue, a lot of chronic pain. And to be honest, like, since getting the diagnosis of fibromyalgia, and actually having someone say, this is a long term condition, and you know, these are ways that you can learn to live with that condition to the best of your ability throughout your life, that has actually been the biggest relief, because I was feeling like such a failure because I wasn't getting better. And like, I was feeling continuously disappointed that I wasn't recovering. And having having someone say, this is probably going to be a lifelong thing you're going to live with it will have ups and downs and get better and worse, at different time points. But this is just something that you have it It took pressure off me to be like, I have to get better, why am I not getting better other people are getting better, what am I doing wrong?

Hannah  06:07

And it has actually really motivated me to really start engaging again, in like things that I do know will make a difference and make me feel better. But you know, I know aren't going to cure me. I'm not I'm not going to be who I was before I got COVID. And I'm really aware that not everyone will really relate to that way of thinking. Everyone kind of responds and manages chronic illness differently, don't they? Yeah, I just, that's just, that's just how I felt in response to having a rheumatologist say, Yeah, this is looking like a long term condition. I actually felt really quite positive. But I know other people will, in my in my situation would feel completely different. Yeah, that's just my news.

Katya  06:59

See, we have this, because obviously, it's been I guess, like three months, we've had a three month break for the podcast and we caught up. And you told me about your diagnosis.

Hannah  07:11

 Yeah. I think was it like a month ago or something? We had a conversation. Do you want to talk about how you then felt when I told you that?

Katya  07:20

Yeah, I felt like I didn't have to say without sounding like a complete arsehole! I felt really upset. I felt upset. And it's like, it's so complicated. Long COVID is so complicated. I had the whole like, you know, because Hannah has been my you've been my long COVID, buddy. So that was the whole thing of is Hannah still my long COVID Buddy ? Because? Yeah, I mean, it's just been. I obviously have come to realize that yes, you still are my long COVID, buddy. So I had the Yeah, the kind of concern of oh, what if it it's just me!

Katya  08:00

But then I also had a, because I'm still clinging to like the full recovery dream. I feel like it was interesting when you said when you mentioned that article in the week, right? Because if I think I first got COVID In May 2021. And then by September, I was experiencing long, COVID symptoms, but that over the course of that whole year, September 2021 to August 2022. I basically recovered, like by August 2022. I probably just, I would say I just looked like a really unhealthy 28 year old. You know, like I could walk for an hour and work full time and like, so when you said that thing about money week, I was kind of like, well, maybe I'm one of those people who like would recover in a year if they just never got COVID again. Yeah, I like what I like my experience of long COVID is cycles of COVID infection, chronic fatigue, slowly improving. And I think I had kind of assumed that you were on that same cycle as me because you have caught COVID every year since 2021, haven't you? Yeah. So it's like a it's like a different framing and like, I can completely get the piece that comes with my diagnosis is chronic pain and chronic fatigue. And Fibromyalgia is the umbrella term that most covers this. It Like It Is COVID induced. But I I can understand that for you the name is freeing because you're you're not subject to something that I find difficult which is like people expect me to be getting better.

Hannah  10:01

that's, that's the bit that I found really difficult. Just being, you know, I'm sure it it's largely imagined, but I imagine that people have these expectations of me that every time they see me, I'll be that bit better and that very soon they'll just be with a Hannah pre COVID. And, and just feeling like I was presenting every time like obviously not that and sometimes just being significantly worse. So for me it's taken off pressure. And actually I am, you know, I've been reading about how people live with fibromyalgia live with chronic fatigue syndrome for years and years, but actually can do learn to manage it and actually do have a good quality of life. And actually, that's been really heartening kind of looking at it in that way. But, yeah, it's difficult as well, because I think, with the podcast, I feel also like, oh, shouldn't I be spreading a positive message of like recovery? Am I? But yeah, I'm kind of, I can't give that message of recovery. I don't, that's not my lived experience.

Katya  11:15

I really don't think that would be helpful. I have quite a few people in my social world, who are still struggling with long COVID And who speak to me about their ongoing struggles to three years post initial infection, and I can't think of anything less helpful than if you and I were to be like, season two. I'm like, completely cured. Do not I mean, yeah, yeah, definitely, you still describe yourself as suffering from long COVID, post COVID syndrome?

Hannah  11:51

Um, I think I like fibromyalgia more, because it's a bit more specific to my symptoms. Whereas your COVID is so broad, it can present in so many ways. Fibromyalgia is perhaps gives us a clearer picture of the type of symptoms I have. So what I now say is, I have fibromyalgia that was triggered off by it is very likely that it was triggered off by getting COVID.

Katya  12:21

Can you just summarize your symptoms as they pertain to fibromyalgia? Just for people who are listening who maybe don't know?

Hannah  12:30

Yeah, so Well, chronic fatigue, but the leading symptom over the course of my time since COVID, has been that pain has gradually amplified over time. So now, speaking to the rheumatologist, that's what he talked about a lot was that I have a lot of pain around and tenderness in my muscles and joints. And then I also have very poor sleep. And although I said in this in an episode on this podcast, that I sleep for hours, and I'm out like a light, what the doctor said was like, it's very likely he was like, Are you waking up feeling refreshed? I was like, No, I'm not. And yeah, he was saying that. I bet that that sleep isn't actually quality sleep. And something I've realized since getting a Fitbit, is that while I'm sleeping, I'm not getting much deep sleep at all. And my heart rate is very elevated throughout long periods of the night. So my body wasn't getting rest. Oh, shit. So yeah, yeah, the honestly getting the Fitbit that's hard. I really, I would really recommend people to get something like that where they can keep keep a track of their sleep and their heart rate because I did not realize how fast my heart rate is, at different times in the day, triggered by different activities, but then I had no idea how high it was at night. So of course, I'm waking up exhausted. Yeah. And if you're,

Katya  14:21

well yeah if your rest is accompanied by 100 beats per minute!

Hannah  14:27

Yeah, so that's been really interesting. And the doctor prescribed me a medication called amitriptyline, which some listeners may have heard of, and I take it in the evenings before I go to sleep. And he said What this will do is it will help your body to actually shut down overnight and it will help you get a deeper sleep and it has helped. It really has I've noticed a difference since being on it. And I am feeling better in the day now because of it. So I've had a very positive experience. Reince so far, I'll let you guys know if something changes. But so far, I've had a really positive experience of going on amitriptyline. It made me feel like hell for the first week. But then, since then it has really helped my sleep. So, so interesting. Yeah, yeah. But I think it was listening to jazz in our, one of our episodes last season that made me think like, oh, maybe I should be, you know, taking a bit more effort to monitor my like body. Whereas, I think I'd been avoiding it because it made me worry, I didn't want to know almost it was that like, denial of like, I'll just float along, and I will recover soon. Yeah, really wanting to know, like, what my heart rate was. And so I finally got that fit bit. And I really, really don't have any regrets at all.

Katya  15:55

Oh, geez. I feel like you're like a more evolved version of me. I know, I want to say, I know, I want to talk to you guys. But like, You're so much better at managing your symptoms. And you're kind of just like, well, I've had a year more, but I got a Fitbit. And then I had my physio tell me, you need to keep your heart rate below 100 I realized that my heart rate is not below 100 doing normal things like walking around and like reading or having a vivid daydream. So about a week after buying my Fitbit, I just took it off. I was like, I can remember looking at it. And it was like 120 121 100 And I was like eating a banana or something.

Katya  16:40

And I was like, Screw this! like, I really don't need I don't I mean, I don't need theterrible state of my metabolism put in front of me

Hannah  16:52

just being flashed at me on my wrist! Yeah, I yeah, I totally understand. I feel like I've talked a lot now. So do you want to

Katya  17:03

talk about where i've been? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Um, yeah, cuz the first thing we were gonna say is like, what have we been up to? In the few months? And you've obviously had your diagnosis and they're managing your symptoms a bit better, right? Yeah. I, I'm guessing I'm one of the money week long, COVID people because I've gotten much better since March. I went back to my rheumatologist. And he put me on prescription antihistamines. I take one in the morning and one in the evening. And I noticed a real boost in my energy levels from the antihistamines, which is really, really interesting. I'm on famotidine and fexofenadine. I take one in the morning and one in the evening. And I just noticed something about my body calmed down a bit. And it probably gave me an extra, like 15/20 minutes of useful energy.

Katya  18:13

But I've just noticed, like, it's so tricky. I know. I do want to separately talk about progress. And like, what does progress mean? Because I feel like my long COVID As it gets better, becomes more invisible and sometimes harder to manage socially. So for example, since going to work four days a week in March, I haven't had a single day off work. And I've just noticed, like, lately, I've been able to do a 20 minute walk every day. Every once in a while, you know our site, you overdo it, and I have to miss it. But I've been like, more consistently active. So I I do feel like my symptoms have improved.

Hannah  19:02

That's great.

Katya  19:03

Yeah, and it's weird, right? Because I can't part of me feels like, can I still do the podcast if my long COVID is not confining me to my bed every week? But actually, yeah, I think it's good for people to know that you you can improve and you have I'm currently experiencing improvement in my symptoms. Yeah, definitely kind of guilty.

Hannah  19:28

No, no, it's good. Like, I think that's, it's nice that we, you know, are kind of able to speak about different experiences of having it, you know, I'm, I'm here saying like, Oh, I've found out that, you know, I have a very chronic manifestation of this that's probably going to last, you know, for the near future. And then you've got a different story of like something that's more hopeful. Hopefully, this means that, you know, you might actually be recovered at some point soon. Touch wood.

Katya  20:05

But this is this is the thing. Like, I feel like I'm getting to a point with long COVID that is tolerable, if that makes sense. So like, I can live in tolerably happy life with my symptoms as they are. But I am nowhere near how I used to be like, I still can't exercise or dance, or I'm still one social activity a week, if that makes sense. And I still sometimes overdo it and have to spend the whole day inside for a couple of days in a row. So yeah,

Hannah  20:39

it's, it's progress. It's all relative.

Katya  20:42

Right? Yeah. Yeah, it is.

Jingle  20:46

 I'm having a good day.

Katya  20:50

Should we move on then to like, let's talk about doing a second season? Yeah. The thing I want to begin with is the reason for doing the second season. And for me, one of the biggest reasons is that even though it's been three months, people still listen to our episodes, which to me is just that sense of like, you know, there are episodes, we've done that I'm just like, ah, that's so cringe. But there are still people out there who listened to them.

Hannah  21:22

Yeah, definitely. Yeah. And also, like, I did miss our conversations. I felt like during the past, it was a reason to, like, get that motivation to meet up and chat, which I do think actually really, really helped get me through what could have been, you know, even more difficult time for us both

Katya  21:46

I agree, something, something I've been doing, actually, in the months since we stopped recording, is I've started therapy. And one of the things that actually came out of therapy was how useful these conversations were to process. The trauma of long COVID Oh, my God, and I've actually been re listening to our first season, Hannah. Yes, yeah. Yesterday, I listened to the first three episodes. And I was just like, it was really comforting. So it's kind of like, yeah, for all of those people out there who are listening to us, like, hello, hi. We're really sorry that like, this is relevant to you. But like, it's still relevant to us. And it's nice that people find some comfort. Yeah,

Hannah  22:35

yeah. And it's so it's so validating to know that, like, there are other people out there kind of going through something similar to us who find something and what we're saying that like, strikes a chord with them.

Katya  22:48

Yeah. Because this is the thing like it's so we've spoken a lot about the unreality of this illness. Now that it's been so long, my life is so adjusted to long COVID Everyone is adjusted to my, you know, like, they know that cash will only stay for a short period of time, or cash never comes into work, it can start to feel like you forget that this is an illness. And this is kind of messed up.

Hannah  23:18

I really am like, I feel like a frog in hot water where like, as the water heats up, they can tolerate it, or they they don't realize how hot it's getting, just because they're so gradually gradually adjusting to over time. And I am like that I'm in a very, I've sort of made for myself quite a protective bubble around my illness. And yeah, I get a bit of a slap in the face when I am put in situations where suddenly I'm like, that little bubble is challenged. So just going to a party, you know, I went to somebody's birthday party the other week, and I managed for a short period of time, but then was really going downhill quite quickly. And you know, had to kind of give Chris a signal of like, I need we need to go now. And you know, as I was putting my shoes on as I was leaving the house, like my hands were just like trembling, doing my laces. And I was like, Oh God, like, the fatigue is setting in. And I just felt so fed up on the drive home. I was just like, Oh, why like, it's it? Why do I do these things? It just reminds me of how crap I am. And that doesn't last long that feeling these days, but it is just a reminder and I'm like, Oh yeah, actually I am ill and I can often pretend I'm not.

Katya  24:46

Yeah, and that like sometimes it comes up in like an anger. Because for me for that I would be like God this is so messed up like everybody else can stay. Why am I the one leaving the party like I had? I went to all The other week for the first time, in ages, I go to a weekly life drawing class. I messaged you about this, Hannah, because the guy next to me had a cold. And he wouldn't stop coughing. And he just coughed with his like nothing. He literally just opened his mouth and coughed. And right next to me, I noticed all the disgusting tissues everywhere. And I was sat there, and my thought pattern went from like, okay, like, just stay calm catcher. You might not get sick. And then it was like, No, this guy. The anger I felt was visceral. It was like animalistic, like, I wanted to murder him. Because the truth is, is it's like, well, he might have COVID, I might get COVID, I might then spend six weeks in bed, and I had everything built. And then I had a panic attack. And I had to leave early. And I literally sobbed on the train the whole way home. It's horrible. And so it's just that thing of like, okay, fine. Like, I've made progress. And I'm living with long COVID. But this is still real, like, it's still an everyday part of my life. And, and sometimes it's a hugely disruptive. Yeah, yeah,

Hannah  26:21

definitely. So, in a nutshell, that's why it's important to keep talking about this! (both laugh) Yeah, keep producing episodes that people might listen to. And my

Katya  26:34

Yeah, helpful. Exactly. All right. I know, we're going to be strict for time. Should we go on to the bounded energy inbox, because we received some emails while we were away. Okay, so I just I guess, first of all, I must issue a profound apology because I know I said I would check the inbox and I just didn't want to just totally burn out. I'm so sorry. Okay.

Hannah  27:03

I'm very happy for you to just deal with anything social media related, because I am a recluse.

Katya  27:10

Hannah's an old lady in a young woman's body. I am. Okay, so this message came from Holly from the UK. And , I'm not gonna mention what Holly does, just to keep things completely anonymous. But Holly emailed us and said, Dear Katya,and Hannah, I've just listened to your podcast on long COVID. And work and found it incredibly helpful to hear other people expressing the way I feel about working with longCOVID. My job is mainly practical, but also involves a lot of outreach and some admin and I find this the most draining because face to face and computer work needs to terrible headaches for me. I also recently got this job and feel exactly like I've tricked my colleagues into giving me the job and that I'm unlikely to be able to keep it.

Katya  27:53

 Oh, oh, Holly, I feel you.

Katya  27:57

Everybody is encouraging and understanding. But I have terrible demons telling me that I'm not doing well enough. And I have a great sense of sadness that I cannot function like an ambitious 20 something year old, like I used to. I'm very bad at telling myself to stop and have regular breaks. I feel guilty doing this when no one is. I'm currently in bed having called COVID for the second time, and I'm considering asking to reduce my hours to for the week moving forwards. This has felt like too much to ask my manager. But I feel encouraged to hear that you've made requests and feel that they've been welcomed. And I liked the idea of phrasing it as a request rather than a problem.

Katya  28:32

Yeah, you are not a problem, Holly.

Katya  28:35

I'm sure this comes up throughout all of your episodes, but an episode on mental health could be really helpful to listen to you as this is a hugely draining factor also affecting my symptoms. Thanks for your honesty and helpful tips. And it for us listening to my episodes, or the best Holly.

Hannah  28:50

Oh, thanks, Holly. It's honestly, it's means so much that Holly took the time to write all of that. And I could relate to so much of what she wrote. I think in terms of negotiating, cutting hours down if that's something that you can manage financially, like I would really say go for it, because I've just seen what a difference it's made for Cattier. But yeah, I think that impostor syndrome feeling is something I definitely still have. And I feel so guilty taking breaks. It sounds like you're a bit of a perfectionist, which is like definitely what I am as well. Yeah, you are not a problem.

Katya  29:34

Yeah,. I agree. I agree. I feel like all employees, I feel like employment is set up such that the employer will get more from you than they pay you. Otherwise, like they just wouldn't be profitable. I don't know if that's like, I don't have an economic background. But it's like they can they can afford for you to take breaks when you need to. And just the fact that you're writing this email makes me think you're probably a super conscientious, hard working person. I think we've spoken before about type A personalities being ripe for long COVID. Like there's a correlation between that type of person who wants to go and go and go, yeah, yeah, getting sick.

Hannah  30:18

And it sounds like, Holly, you are an absolute asset to that workplace. It sounds like you give a huge amount of yourself to that job. And just don't ever forget that. I've had experiences where I've really felt not at all valued because of my illness in a workplace. And that's really hard to go go through, I think I've learned that like, I can't rely on my boss or whatever, to be giving me external validation all the time, I have to just really believe it in myself and be able to like, like, comfort myself that I know, I'm giving this my best, and I know I'm doing enough.

Katya  31:02

Yeah, and if they don't recognize that, then time to start looking for another job. As far as like asking to go down to four days a week, I think my biggest piece of advice is just taking the time to really explain to your manager, what long COVID is, and what the symptoms are. Uh, for me, that was like, the most helpful thing in terms of communicating my needs my manager, he'd already seen all of my like, struggles. Yeah, and I also think like, an episode on mental health is a great idea. Yeah,

Hannah  31:37

I think to be perfectly honest, me and Katya have talked about doing an episode on this, but I think, Well, I'm a little bit avoided about it. For one thing, I think we're just like, wow, what did it what a what a beast to tackle? How could we possibly like, we would have to break it into sub themes. Like, who knows where it would go? Because also like,

Katya  31:59

we're not gonna it's not it's gonna be like the blind leading the blind, isn't it? You have to like really neurotic, anxious people. I don't think we're gonna come on and be like, I used to have all of these mental illnesses. And now and then I like, took cold showers and took a vitamin C pill, and I'm completely better. I think.

Hannah  32:18

I honestly think I can do it. I feel like the the concluding statement of that episode for me would just be I have ongoing mental health issues. I'm trying but I have no answers.

Katya  32:30

Yeah, I think that's what people want to hear Hannah. So thank you very much for email, Hannah, Hannah, Holly. And there's one more Hannah, from Martha. Hi, Hannah. And Katya. I don't know, if you're checking the podcast email.

Katya  32:46

 I'm sorry.

Katya  32:47

But I thought I'd send a message just in case I'm 26. And as you might have guessed, have long COVID. I wanted to let you know that I find listening to you both as people in their mid to late 20s. With this really comforting, so much of the long COVID content online feels like it's four or by people quite a bit older, who are at what feels like a very different part of their lives and careers. I'm appreciative for any kind of solidarity. And it makes me feel much less alone knowing there are people my age dealing with it to sending you lots of beans, Martha.

Hannah  33:18

Oh, thanks, Martha.

Katya  33:20

You're not alone

Hannah  33:22

Definitely not. I totally agree about that. It is so and I think Holly mentioned it as well. Like, it's really hard when you're in your 20s because you have this thing of like, I should be like raring to go, like making gains in my career. There's all there's different expectations on you. And, yeah, I definitely felt like when I was when I went to the long COVID talks, like the long COVID clinic talks that they ran about managing fatigue and blah, blah, blah. I really, I mean, I was the youngest person in that group, by a long way. And I really felt like the content was geared towards a different demographic. Yeah, I totally relate to that.

Katya  34:09

Hang in there, Martha. Sometimes, like, I was talking to my friend about this yesterday, because you do have that feeling sometimes of like, your youth being robbed from you. But then I just think that it's like, we're not alone. I think of all those people who turned 20 like the start of World War One, you know, and then, like, they must have felt so excited to be a young adult and independent and then this absolute tragedy just befell them or do not I mean, it's kind of like, not like most people aren't living 90210 Yeah, yeah.

Hannah  34:47

Like people's, like youth are affected and all these different ways. And, yeah, yeah, that is true. I think. I think sometimes part of the isolation of having long COVID Is that because you can't be with people face to face you do then end up observing the world through the lens of social media a little bit more often. Yeah, if that's true for other people, but that's something I found. And that's kind of even more why I've just really stepped away from it. Because I was like, I think I'm just getting myself. I'm just getting a very warped reality of the other types of lives people are living and negatively comparing myself.

Katya  35:26

Yeah. And like the truth is, is I know a whole lot of people who don't have long COVID, who also spend like Friday and Saturday night alone, mostly playing computer games with me,

Hannah  35:36

like your brother.

Katya  35:39

like my brother and fair few of my online friends! All right. We've gone slightly over. How it are you? Are you feeling okay? You're not feeling too tired?

Hannah  35:53

No, I'm feeling okay. Actually. Yeah, usually, I'm feeling really knackered by the end of a conversation that we would usually have because we lost for ages because we don't want to stop talking. Yeah.

Katya  36:05

Okay. All right. All right. Thanks so much for listening. Join us next time when we'll be talking about long COVID and progress from the minefields of how are you to the directed are you better yet?  . Questions, comments, reach out to us on Instagram at bounded energy, or email us at bounded energy@gmail.com full transcripts of each episode are on our website, bounded energy dot code at UK thanks for listening